Buddism would say that all desire must be extinguished. Christianity makes the distinction between righteous and evil desires. The book Song of Solomon is an example of the Bible celebrating Godly sexual desires (and King Solomon himself is an example of the perversion of those desires, with his many pagan wives).

CS Lewis was big on the idea that even our evil desires point towards a real, uncorrupted desire which is what we *really* want. Like that saying, “Our hearts are restless until they find their rest in thee”.

In his book The Great Divorce, Lewis imagines a man on his journey to heaven who struggles with lust, which is personified as a talking lizard that sits on his shoulder. An angel meets the pilgrim and offers to destroy the pesky creature. The lizard tries desperately to dissuade his host, but eventually the man agrees to be rid of it once and for all, adding, “Do it fast before I change my mind.” With a quick snap, the angel breaks the lizard’s back, after which it promptly transforms into a mighty steed, capable of carrying him up into the high mountains.

To this point, I would add the verse about Jesus enduring the shame of the cross for the joy set before him. Because of his great desire to save us.

Of course, once you get into Old Man/New Man it breaks down. The Old Man *only* desires evil, like the grave, never satisfied … hence, there is no rest for the wicked.

Thanks be to God who satisfies our New Man’s deepest desires in Christ … “Taste and see that the Lord is good.”

Whoah to me, I am undone. Every particle of my self is fraudulent.

All of my goals and the entire framework for my existence are amiss.

Note to my self: “Who cares what you think?”

Thanks, God Whisperers … I needed that.

Duly noted … LOL

Sort of like “if a listener whines about something in a forest, and nobody hears, does he make a sound” @:}

All is well in GW land … LOL

Another problem caused by the modern toilet is the unnatural posture that it puts you in. People without modern toilets do not suffer from hemorrhoids and colon cancer like those with modern toilets do. This website sells a platform that is supposed to replicate the more traditional squatting position: http://www.naturesplatform.com/ I have yet to talk my wife into it.

C’mon Pastors … Hemming and hawing and aw shucks …

Would have preferred a clear rebuke for coarse jesting and lewdness, or for you to stand up against this pietist nonsense.

What are you worried about? Any church that wouldn’t call you deserves the alternative they’d get. Paul’s ministry wasn’t very successful either … beaten, shipwrecked, slandered, from failure to failure …

Just don’t like seeing you guys with your tales tucked between your legs. Remember Paul telling the Galatians to cut off the whole package if they are so insistent on being circumcised.

Are you acting like Peter when the officials from Jerusalem showed up? Is that too harsh? What kind of message does that send to the rest of us?

You Pastors are my heroes … I don’t know what the solution is, but don’t cave because you’re afraid of being thrown out of the temple. Put your trust in God even if you get your head cut off for it.

Easy for me to say, right?

Also, what about the practice of ringing the bells after the bread is blessed and then again after the wine is blessed? Is that a consecrationist practice?

Happy Easter, God Whisperers!

Am trying to catch up by listening to podcasts in order, so am seriously behind.

I attend an Anglican Church, because

(a) they follow the liturgy
(b) they offer the sacrements
(c) I don’t have a vast array of choices in my area
(d) I have committed to help with the Sunday School (just recently)

So, while I hear the Word; I don’t hear it properly proclaimed.
Yes, there’s a lot of error in what the rector believes, as shown not only in his “sermons”, but also in discussions during “Bible Study”.

I put Bible Study in quotations, because it’s more like: let’s read this coming week’s scriptures, and discuss what you think about when you read it. He doesn’t proclaim or discuss what it really means, and uses some terrible commentary (I believe exclusively). I believe it’s Barnes, if I recall correctly – but I looked it up, and he’s considered good on the historical facts, but very poor on theology, in that he doesn’t believe a lot of the Bible truths.

Anyway, please keep up the great work – because if it were not for podcasts; I”d still be swimming in a sea of murk, and would not have heard the truths of the scripture. I’m becoming more discerning than I was (thinking that I knew something or other previously, but discovering there was so much I didn’t know). Now I realize just how lacking and condemning the evangelical churches I’ve attended in the past have been.

Since y’all have a propensity to tread off-topic, let me say first off, the San Antonio Spurs are the best thing EVER in sports.

Secondly, I, too, am a bacon coveter. The more bacon content you put into your episode, the hammier.

Thirdly, I will never watch video of your episodes, because the images you create over the net-waves are simply too precious and precocious to be ruined by the real deal.

Lastly, stop calling yourselves the manly doctors of divinity: stick to just the manly, and drop the rest, as you are hardly doctoral and never divine. If the manly remains, then you will be in the good company of great ones like our beloved Martin Luther (a man among mice).

Pax ex sanguine Christi, gents!

While not a Lutheran, if it weren’t for the shows on Pirate Christian Radio – I’d still be wandering about in the weeds, not knowing about the proper distinction of Law and Gospel, or the sacraments (real meaning, not just symbols), and truly what God has done for us, and that it’s not us climbing some ladder.

I don’t have a decent place to worship around here when it comes to sermons, but at least I’m getting the Word and Sacraments – and I fill in the gaps with the various PCR shows. Thank you so much for your outreach and your service to those of us who REALLY need it.

Bacon Chocolate.

**********On the other hand …

Telling the Old Adam to “do whatever it wants” is like putting a shotgun to its zombie head and blowing it’s zombie brains out.

See here: http://www.johnkleinig.com/index.php/christian-spirituality/

Great show as always, Manly Doctors.

Not that I could ever forget this, but your talk of baptism and exorcism reminded me of an infant baptism while I was at the seminary. My fieldwork pastor proclaimed, “Depart, you unclean spirit; make room for the Holy Spirit.” And immediately, the child sneezed. I couldn’t help but think of the Greek and Hebrew words for spirit/breath: “Yup, there goes that unclean spirit.”

This is an FYI because Rev. Cwirla mentioned at one point in the episode that the appendix is not useless, but was unable to explain why.

Play that funky music white boyz!!!!!

Thank you for your Christmas office party edition.

As always, you continue to expand my musical horizons.

I had not heard “Every Valley Shall Be Exalted” – Lizz Lee, Chris Willis & Mike E. (Handel’s Messiah, A Soulful Celebration).

I think it is different from Marin Alsop’s Too Hot to Handel. Ms. Alsop took over the Baltimore Symphony a few years ago, and we were able to go the the Meyerhoff for a performance (I think it was with the Morgan State Choir). It was AMAZING. As knowledgeable and erudite as you both are, I’m sure you can educate me on this. And include Too Hot to Handel in upcoming editions.

In the spirit of Advent, my negative comments remind me a bit of Zechariah when he doubted Gabriel’s promise that he and wife would conceive a son. He asked my favorite question, “How can I be sure of this?” The angel rebukes Zechariah with “I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time.”

Gabriel was there to reveal something hidden, something that could only be known to one who stood in the presence of God. Zechariah wanted more and was rebuked, and was literally shut up so he couldn’t ask any more dumb questions until the baby John was born.

Here’s where it gets really good … Jesus makes a similar statement about revealing God’s secret will. Only the response he gets from the Jews is they try to kill him. In the Gospel of John, Jesus says “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed … I am telling you WHAT I HAVE SEEN IN THE FATHER’S PRESENCE.”

What’s amazing is that Jesus just shows up to hand out salvation to a gathering of Jews after thousands of years of national idolatry and now an obsessive interest in Torah. This would be like Bruce Springsteen popping into some bar in New Jersey and offering a free show to the 20 or so people who just happened to be there, all of whom say they never heard of him and tell him to get lost before they bash his head in.

What’s more insane is that Jesus makes no mention of any form of repentance or reparations on the part of his hearers. He says basically, “Alright, today’s YOUR lucky day … I’m God and I’m here to set you free from Torah … I’m here to make you all sons of the most high God … no questions asked … no conditions … no one will be refused … Year of Jubilee for the taking, boys!!!”

But they were too obsessed with Torah and conditionality… “Did we meet the conditions? What are the conditions? What about our list of variables that affect the conditions?” and on and on … They had forgotten that a slave has no permanent place in the family, and that everyone who relies on works of the law is under a curse.

Ignoring their sin, Jesus just shows up and announces that Salvation itself is standing in their presence for the taking. That he was there on that day to obliterate conditionality, to crush the head of Torah.

Their response shows that obsession with conditionality is really just a well disguised, respectable form of unbelief.

May we all hear and believe these words:

“… this will come true at the proper time … I stand in the presence of God.”

“The one who eats my flesh will live forever.”

Amen.

Gotta get my praise on (so to speak) … which is a reason I enjoy gospel music, though some of it talks too much about “today I’m going to get my breakthrough”, and stuff like that (very temporally oriented).

Wish there was an internet station that played Lutheran hymns where you could here the words. That’s the problem with choral singing is you can’t tell what they’re saying.

Anyway, I hope you have an awesome Christmas, with lots and lots of Bacon … LOL

Ocd people with religious fears have a unique problem in that they are actually afraid of something real. As opposed to being afraid of elevators, or being stuck in traffic, where there is actually no danger. So yes, we understand the idea of being afraid of hell. Not so good at understanding that our sins are forgiven, and we have nothing to fear in Christ. Listening to your show has been a tremendous help to me in that regard, and I think I would probably have gone to atheism without it. That happens to us because we just want to shut it off. Also anything by Rod Rosenbladt, especially his series on Fathers. Good stuff.

Your problem is with what you describe as “religious ocd” and not with what we said. You want to be able to put things into neat little boxes that make sense without being paradoxical to alleviate the logical tension that paradoxes create. Calvinists hate paradox and view it as an intellectual copout. I’m afraid that the doctrine of election won’t provide any such security.

To be accurate, the “saved” are the elect, the “damned” are those who reject their election. We are not saved by our non-rejection nor are we damned by God’s election. This may sound strange to you but you actually should be terrified of falling away and “work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” Do Christians honestly fear hell anymore? They should! And in that fear and trembling, you should flee to Jesus Christ who is the only refuge against the wrath of God and the fear you have of falling away. If it was up to you and your believing, you’d be damned along with Craig and me. But it is not up to you, it is all hanging on Jesus. Fear and faith go together. The doctrine of election never, and I mean NEVER, will leave you feeling secure about your faith or anything else in you. It will leave you with nothing but Christ crucified as your certainty.

So you are not far from the kingdom. And your old Adam rightly hates what we have to say because we’ve stripped him of any attempt to save himself. Keep checking yourself daily and you will find a damnable unbelieving sinner that needs to die. He’s called your “old Adam.” He is not to be coddled with platitudes or comforted with Calvinistic logic. He is to be put to death. And the new you in Christ is to rise daily. You must decrease, Christ must increase. The Calvinists with their logical syllogisms will never be able to bridge the paradoxical tension of old man and new man, Law and Gospel.

So just to be clear for those looking in. It is NOT that those who are saved are those who don’t reject, as though their non-rejection is the cause of their salvation. Those who are saved are saved because they are elect in Christ, the elect Son, from all eternity. Those who are damned are those who reject their election in Christ. Keep the paradox of salvation paradoxical. Your religious “ocd,” like your old Adam, needs to drop dead.

If you have religious ocd, I recommend that you avoid this episode like the plague. Faith-killing stuff for anyone who’s terrified that they’ll fall away, and because of mental illness is drawn to constantly check themselves to see if they’re resisting more today than they were yesterday.

Pastor Cwilra (who I love and would gladly have his baby, if it were anatomically possible … ewwwwww. sorry about that, but hey I’m nuts) explains the unanswerable question of “Why Some and Not Others” with those who are saved are the ones who didn’t reject. As an ocd sufferer, this sent me into a bit of a tail spin again, as it did a year ago when I first heard it.

Some episodes where I disagreed with them on my first listen, now I understand better because I’ve learned more about Lutheran theology, specifically their discussion of ex opera operato. But this episode on election is still awful. Please see my comments above which I think are still valid.

Hopefully this is a disagreement among friends … just wanted to add my perspective on this episode.

Also, liked the ska-metal version of “Jesus is a Friend of Mine.” You should start using that as your closing music.

Greetings from the Great White North, Timmins, Ontario, Canada! I heard your plea in the last episode (168) and have come to your rescue with your next topic. Since you are very adept and knowledgable in all things Christology, could you please do a guided reading and discussion through Martin Chemnitz’s “The Two Natures in Christ”?

Please, do not go off the ether web… I love the show, and I may even buy something from the schwag store just to keep you in burrito money…

God bless and keep the tapes rolling!!!

In Christ,
Rev Joel Kuhl

Did Adam and Eve go to hell?
If not, do we know who was the first one condemned there?

About Rob Bell: “Inquire no more, you feral beast.”

Oh well. Thanks for sharing.

Hope the Ipad gets better soon.

One of my favorite prayers is the one given by Walter A Meier in the Easter 1942 Lutheran Hour broadcast (available on their website http://www.lutheranhour.org/history.htm#maier). I want this to be prayed at my funeral!

“O Christ our risen redeemer, eternal thanks be to thee that on the first glorious Easter thou didst mightily prove thyself the Lord of life and of death itself. Help us all to stand gratefully before the empty tomb, there to acclaim thee our mighty God, our merciful savior. Grant us through trusting faith to know that because thou livest we too shall live, and that thy resurrection is our pledge of life eternal. O Jesus on this glorious Easter, let us rise with thee to the heights of sole happiness, casting off all gloom of despondency, conquering our sorrows and pains, defeating the fear of death, overcoming doubt, and, beholding thee as our resurrected Lord, find new faith, new courage, new holiness of living. Enrich us with this Easter gift, our risen Christ, for we pray these petitions in thy holy name. Amen.”

the main issue Love Wins presents to historical theology is its implications that there is the possibility of conversion after death

By the way, please keep up with the Harry Camping clips. When you pick a date for the Rapture and you get it wrong, it’s always open season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LYKRwc8rKM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR2-wEhZlc4&t=45s

Lori

Keep up the great post rapture work

Thanks for the show!

I think abortion is wrong and should be illegal, but I’ve often wondered about the effect of declaring unborn babies legally persons. Does every miscarriage become a manslaughter investigation? It’s a better problem to have than however many million dead babies every year, but it seems like there might be a way of falling off on the other side.

I love your show! Keep up the great work.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2002/mar/09/restandrelaxation.shopping

The ‘Pastor’ had occassion to read the Lord’s Prayer during his talk … not sure how he stumbled on to it … but anyway he used the part of the prayer “thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” to show that we should be have shouting and dancing and partying in the church, for after all they are all having a ‘big ole party in heaven’. I have been wondering every since, “HOW can someone get that out of the Lord’s Prayer?’

Oh well

Just thought you might like to hear that take on the subject …

Micheal Larimer
Lamar MO

PS
Believe it or not I am a returning listener LOL

After reading your sermon, I’m rethinking the wisdom of this practice. To me, it seems like the imposition of ashes would be a kind of Law-sacrament, which of course is a contradiction in terms. In other words, a minister of the GOSPEL, who administers the Word & Sacraments, would seem to be symbolically “undoing” baptism by using ashes (unintentionally, and not actually, of course). The Word of the Gospel with the water of baptism conveys forgiveness, life, and salvation. We are clean by the blood of Christ. Why would we want to “get dirty” and symbolically deny that with the imposition of ashes?

I wondered if you would comment on this…

So I’m curious…where does this idea come from?

BTW, a Muslim country during Ramadan can be fun. For a month of fasting you sure find lots of really great food available for the holiday…after sundown, of course. Not to mention that the work days are shorter.

Oh, wait a second, I’m one of them. Self love – I think I will go hug myself now and pat my own head.

I am back in the pulpit as a vacancy pastor. I travel from Sheboygan, Wisconsin to Oshkosh, Wisconsin with regularity (about 1 hour of legit travel. It’s 55 miles so it’s not an LA traffic hour).

I have downloaded all the episodes and have listened to them in order. I’m currently up to episode 68.

You guys are much cheaper than therapy. Keep up the great work!

Mark Wilkens (a Manly Dr. wannabe!)

Heyyyyyy … I resemble that remark @:}

“… he chose the weak things, the foolish things, the things that are not to nullify the things that are.”

We are the bruised-reed God Whispers army … who knows, there may be one or two of us in every lcms church?

Probably a lot of us have been through the wringer of evangelical non-sense and barely latched onto your show before going under …

But we’re still here. And we understand that salvation is all of grace. And for some inexplicable reason, we can’t wait to listen to your next show!

So there! … I hope you feel guilty @:}

PS seems like there was a lot of times in the Bible when God chose someone to do something and they thought it couldn’t be done, or it wasn’t worth doing.

For whatever reason, you Pastors started doing this show … now you have a bunch religious rejects (geeks) who depend on you. Geeks are always ahead of the curve. But without the geeks, there is no reformation. I mean, come on … Luther and Melanchthon weren’t exactly the coolest kids in class … lol.

http://www.giamusic.com/search_details.cfm?title_id=8171

Enjoy!

The problem I have with Suzee’s explanation is the fact that there were 12 disciples, following the Resurrection Judas was replaced, thus bringing the number to 12, and 12 it would always be.

What about Adam in the garden? All he had to do was to *not* eat from the forbidden tree.

If salvation depends on us *not* doing something, regeneration could then be understood to place us in the same position as Adam before the fall, without the imputed righteousness of the Second Adam. Or, to quote Rod Rosenblatt, “Your sins are forgiven … now don’t screw up.”

Also … “me not doing something is not me doing something” seems to miss the point of the nature of idolatry, and would then make our salvation depend on our obedience to the first commandment. To me, it sounds like you are saying, “All you have to do is not wander after your false gods … but that’s not doing something.”

This gets into the whole problem of at what point does sin become so severe as an act of unbelief that it kills faith.

_______________________________

PS: Pastor Cwirla … I downloaded about a hundred of your sermons from htlcms.org/sermons. No … the check is not in the mail (sorry)

What’s interesting is I can hit shuffle and use it as a sermonical ouji board … yikes! Just kidding, but you get the idea.

You’d be amazed at how many times it jumps to the perfect sermon for what I needed to hear that day … though it may be the Holy Spirit working with whatever sermon pops up.

It’s the perfect cover though … I think Jesus probably is making the “right” one pop up, but nobody could ever prove it … hehehe @:}
(crazy people don’t know they’re crazy, and what I don’t know can’t hurt me … lol)

-The partridge in a pear tree was
Jesus Christ.

-Two turtle doves were the
Old and New Testaments.

-Three French hens stood for
faith, hope and love.

-The four calling birds were the four gospels
of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

-The five golden rings recalled the Torah or
Law, the first five books of the Old Testament.

-The six geese a-laying stood for the six days
of creation.

-Seven swans a-swimming represented
the
sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit–Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhoration, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy.

-The eight maids a-milking were the
eight beatitudes.

-Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits
of the Holy Spirit–Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self Control.

-The ten lords a-leaping were the
ten commandments.

-The eleven pipers piping stood for the
eleven faithful disciples.

-The twelve drummers drumming symbolized
the twelve points of belief in the Apostles’ Creed.

So there is your history for today.
This knowledge was shared with me and I found it interesting and enlightening
and now I know how that strange song became a Christmas Carol…so pass it on if you wish.’

Merry (Twelve Days of) Christmas Everyone

Boxing Day takes its name from the ancient practice of opening boxes that contained money given to those who had given their service during the year. It was also the day when alms boxes, placed in churches on Christmas Day, were opened. The money was then given to the priest or used to help the poor and needy. Another name for Boxing Day used to be Offering Day.

The earliest boxes of all were not box shaped, as you might imagine, nor were they made of wood. They were, in fact, earthenware containers with a slit in the top (rather like piggy banks.) These earthenware ‘boxes’ were used by the Romans for collecting money to help pay for the festivities at the winter Saturnalia celebrations.

During the seventeenth century it became the custom for apprentices to ask their master’s customers for money at Christmas time. They collected this money in earthenware containers, which could be opened only by being smashed, and on Boxing Day the apprentices would eagerly have a ‘smashing time’, hence the expression, seeing how much they had collected.

A later tradition, and the one which has survived to this day, was the distribution of Christmas ‘boxes’, gifts of money to people who had provided services throughout the year – the postman, the lamp-lighter, parish beadles, parish watchmen, dustmen and turn-cocks – which happened on the day after Christmas Day.

Christmas Crackers: Everyone loves to pull a cracker. It’s all part of the fun of Christmas. The originator of the cracker was a man called Tom Smith who owned a sweet shop in London.

Tom had a good eye for business. He also had a sense of humour. ‘What people like,’ he used to say, ‘is something new. And if it’s not new, the art is to find a way of selling it!’

http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/boxing_day_history.htm

During the 1840’s Tom found that people liked sugar almonds, but while he was on holiday in France he came across a variety of sweets wrapped up in a twist of paper. These bonbons seemed very popular, so Tom decided to copy the idea to wrap his sugar almonds. The new wrapping made the sweets look rather special. They sold well. Then Tom noticed that young men were buying them to give to their sweethearts. He began placing ‘love mottoes’ on small slips of paper inside the sweet wrapping. This novelty sold even better than Tom had expected. People went out of their way to visit his shop and buy this new kind of sweet.

In 1846 Tom turned his thoughts towards Christmas. Instead of sweets, why not wrap little toys and novelties in the twisted wrapping? Tom experimented and hit on the idea of producing a wrapping that could be pulled apart – just like the cracker as we know it today.

As he had hoped, the Christmas novelty was a success, but Tom was still not satisfied. One evening he was standing idly in front of the fire. As he kicked a log into place there was a shower of sparks and the log cracked and popped making Tom jump. ‘That’s it!’ he laughed to himself. ‘What I need is something in my wrapping that will make a ‘snap’ when it is pulled open’.

For some months he worked with several chemicals until at last he found one that was safe, easy to make, and would make a noise just loud enough to amuse his customers and not frighten them.

The new ‘crackers’ were a sensation and soon making them became a full-time business. Tom had to open a factory to produce them. Today the Tom Smith factory sell crackers all over the world, and the man who liked to amuse his customers would be amazed to know that his sense of fun had started a Christmas tradition.

(reprinted from the Christmas-time.com website)

I may have misunderstood what you were saying. It seems to me that your explanation of perseverance turns regeneration into prevenient grace, so that election depends on us not resisting after regeneration. Whereas Arminians say that it depends on us not resisting before *and* after regeneration.

I understand that we’re dealing with paradoxes here. Just seems like you put too fine a point on it and said things in a way that goes beyond scripture. If someone asks “Will God preserve me to the end?”, a good response might be “Why are you asking?”

Here are some quotes to try to make me look smart … hehehe @:}

—- Quote from Walther per Jordan Cooper’s website:

“If my non-resistance were the real and ultimate ground, then I would be my only savior.” ibid. 188

http://justandsinner.blogspot.com/2010/04/lutherans-and-immutable-election.html

—- Quote from Pieper per Jordan Cooper’s website:

“What Scripture teaches on final perseverance may be summarized in these two statements:

1. He that perseveres in faith does so only through God’s gracious preservation; the believer’s perseverance is a work of divine grace and omnipotence.

2. He that falls away from faith does so through his own fault; the cause of apostasy in every case is rejection of God’s Word and resistance to the operation of the Holy Spirit in the Word. This doctrine the Christian Church must maintain and defend on two fronts: against Calvinism and against synergism.” (Dogmatics Volume III pg. 89)

http://justandsinner.blogspot.com/search/label/Calvinism%20vs.%20Lutheranism

Thanks Pastors!!! You give me something to look forward to when I head to work. ( I know … I need to get a life … lol )

Calvinist Pick-up lines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQxhdxFN0qE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc711HmvxDQ&feature=player_embedded

Merry Christmas!
Suzee

A wake episode….that gives a whole new meaning to “dead air”….especially if it was a wake for Cwirla….

Also, Where can I get more Norman Nagel sermons from?

A more Lutheran take on TULIP:

T – Total Depravity
U – Undeserved Election
L – Loving Atonement
I – Immeasurable Grace
P – Preparation of the Saints

Peace,

H.

Sincerely
Your Brother in Christ
Sam

On a completely unrelated note – I started from Ep 1 way back in July and have now listened to all your episodes in order. Get cranking on some new ones, asap – I need something to listen to at work! In case you need ideas for new episodes… James May of Lutherans in Africa would be good.
Get Chris Rosebrough for a 3rd mic episode.
Matthew Harrison (as soon as he has time, if he ever does).
Someone from the Swedish-Finnish Mission Province up here in our neck of the woods – give you a little insight on just how ‘brilliant’ life can be in a ‘Lutheran’ church that has around 80% membership (of the entire nation) and is as liberal as they come.
Biblical Canon, biblical inerrancy, ins and outs of ecumenism, 3rd mic editions with Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Calvinist…

Anyway, if I heard/understood correctly, you mentioned that no one calls the Manly Drs hotline. I did a month and a half ago after listening to a show in which you mentioned smoked meats recommending a book. Again, not looking for any recognition, but you might want to check your messages, assuming Skype keeps them around that long.

“And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as I came back, I saw many captives crucified, and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician’s hands, while the third recovered.”

http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/autobiog.htm

pax,
Leistico

(didn’t mean to be anonymous – and don’t now, but somehow I can’t sign in properly.)

Just to be clear, I’m not talking about works of the unregenerate but rather works of the Christian. For example, when somebody dies God speaks his Law without anyone verbalizing it. So when missionaries or churches care for the poor by clothing and feeding them it goes a long way – people seem to be more receptive of the message. How do Lutherans parse this out? Does the Holy Spirit speak the gospel through our works?

You need to use this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JLShNHr5tc

Also, apparently *someone* has a Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Donofrio

I thought this would be up your alley. Thanks for the show guys! Keep the servings of theology and bacon coming!

As for content, I appreciated the comments about Rick Warren et al. I need “ammunition” when talking to people who think they don’t need to hear about sin anymore now that they are saved. I think churches’ membership losses are more despair over too much “3rd use of the Law” [I can't DO this!] rather than because they can’t groove to the music in CW.

SRB – what you say about turkey bacon is exactly what I say about Mexican restaurants here in our neck of the woods (that is, if I know who you are… and I think I do.) Being from California, I have to tell myself when I go to greater St.L Mexican restaurants, “This is good food, as long as I don’t expect it to be real mexican.” Though Mariachis is closer to the real thing than any of the others I’ve gone to (like Casa Gallardo.)
and I would love to find somewhere around here that serves good fish tacos on a regular basis. (I think Mariachis might on Fridays during Lent.)

I was a Calvinist before I started listening to you guys’ show and also Radical Grace and then I became Lutheran. I don’t think I’m a Crypto, but there may be some presuppositions that I haven’t shed yet.

About “declared” versus “revealed”…

I will need to consider your comments as I believe there are some underlying presuppositions that I’m not understanding. Calvinist theology definitely emphasizes the declared aspect more … but I think I see your point that it can’t just be an abstract declaration … it must be connected to the cross as the means of salvation.

For Calvinism, things can be more abstract as sovereignty may sometimes receive more emphasis than God revealing himself in history … though that’s not always the case depending on the teacher.

On the declaring side, I would reference Romans 4 regarding Abraham being declared righteous … “the God who gives life to the dead and calls (or declares) things that are not as though they were.”

My understanding would be that God declared Abraham to be something he wasn’t (righteous) and it was so because God said it (though I see your point … not as an abstract declaration but because the imputed righteousness of Christ would later be revealed and Abraham received that promise by faith).

The passage does reference creation ex nihilo and raising the dead … though in the context of creating faith out of nothing. God declares and the reality leaps into being. I would want to protect the idea that God declaring something is Him doing something … or that he creates faith out of nothing through the sacraments by declaring that our sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PR. DONOFRIO!

Instead of “revealing”, I like “declaring” better, like when God speaks something into existence out of nothing. God reveals my true condition in the law but that may not lead to faith. “Revealing” sounds too passive.

Thanks for your previous response @:}

Revealing is never nothing when God is doing it. To reveal your salvation is to save you. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It saves you precisely because it creates faith. “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.”

For reference:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1127010/bio

http://www.joelosteen.com/About/JoelOsteen/Pages/JoelOsteen.aspx

http://www.who2.com/joelosteen.html

Then no one would be saved.

Or else we’re saying that some sinners are less dead than others. Saying those who don’t resist will be saved is still salvation by works but at its most subtle.

Take the Stand had an episode where he read “The Art of Getting Used to Justification” by Gerhard Forde where he discussed this topic.

http://takethestand.typepad.com/take_the_stand/2009/11/the-art-of-getting-used-to-justification.html

Forde made the point that God’s promise in Christ is radically unconditional. It throws our old being into shock. In protest we offer up pious questions to fight for some measure of control, to introduce conditionality back into the scheme.

But the answer to our objections is always a resounding “Yes” …

Do you mean there’s nothing for me to do? …
Yes! It’s all been done for you.

Do you mean that everything depends on Christ?
Yes! God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy.

“Do you mean I can’t say no?” …
“Yes!, you can’t say no” … “one is not forced here … one is made new”
“The old being cannot survive the promise”

The language of “forced” is the language of decision theology. Repentance and faith are a package deal … you get one, you get them both. We were dead. We’ve been raised to life. We are not robots, but we are new creatures in Christ and as such we do what we now want to do which is repent and believe (sometimes).

This would be a great topic for further discussion.

http://www.oldsolar.com/singlefile.php?singlefile=02022007

I started listening to your show around episode 75 or so. I just started back to #1 and just finished #4. It brought up a few questions. When a biological mom and or dad relinquishes their right as a parent in the eyes of the Civil Law, how can the child honor thy father and mother? I totally get the grace giving issue but what happens as the kid grows up and years later the biological parent wants to ‘get to know you’ again? The 4th Commandment doesn’t have a time limit, I know but really what is your opinion on this, thought, comments,etc. I’d love to hear them.
Susie

In response to Pastor Donofrio’s assertion that grace is (always?) resistible (otherwise you’re a Calvinist) I wanted to post this discussion where Dr. Robert Kolb weighed in on the subject …

(from Jordan Cooper’s blog at justandsinner.blogspot.com)

A Final Note on the Irresistible Grace Controversy

Some of you know I (Jordan Cooper) had a debate with an LCMS pastor over the issue of irresistible grace. I made the claim that as Lutherans we must believe in the doctrine in some sense, though without denying the universalis gratia. See my post on immutable election to see what point I was trying to argue. I emailed Dr. Robert Kolb amidst this controversy on this issue with this specific question:

Dr. Kolb,
I have been having a conversation with an LCMS pastor on the subject of election. I made the point that Lutherans agree with some of what Calvinists are saying when using the term irresistible grace. What I mean by this is that God’s election will always result in the salvation of that individual. One who is elect cannot become non-elect, thus in that sense election is “irresistible”, though I realize it is not the best term to use. I also made the point that election is particular and does not extend to everyone as does the universalis gratia. Not everyone is elect.
This pastor seemed to think that I was espousing Calvinistic doctrines when saying this. However, when I read through Pieper, Walther, and Hoenecke on the topic, they all seem to be saying the same thing that I am. Am I being faithful to Lutheran theology by making the points that: 1. election will always necessarily result in final salvation and 2. not all men are elect?

This was Dr. Kolb’s response:

Your reading of Pieper, Walther, and Hoenecke is correct, I believe. Under the proclamation of the law, Lutherans clearly believe with Luther in the Smalcald Articles III,4,43-45, that believers can lose the faith and fall from grace. Otherwise, as the Formula of Concord strives to make clear, the distinction of law and gospel disappears, and we fall into either an antinomian arrogance and false security, or despair. But under the teaching of the gospel Lutherans teach that God’s gospel promise in the means of grace is sure because it is God’s promise. What, I think, John Calvin did not grasp, much less his followers, is how Luther understood the doctrine of election only in the context of distinguishing law and gospel in delivering God’s Word to his people, and how God actually is present and working with his saving power in the means of grace. The Calvinists who have become Lutherans – the ones I know, at least – point especially to the second point and the insecurity they had when there was no certain place to look, only to one’s own life, for assurance that God loved them in Christ.
I have gone into this in some detail in my book Bound Choice, Election, and Wittenberg Theological Method (Eerdmans, 2005, I think). That may help some.

This should settle the issue as Dr. Kolb is a competent scholar and has written on the subject.

http://justandsinner.blogspot.com/2010/05/final-note-on-irresistible-grace.html

The real reason is that I actually do 80% of the talking, at least according to Craig.

Susan B.

Of all candidates for admission to the Kingdom, Jesus says, infants are ideal- and it is through baptism that we enter the Kingdom.

Sorry, that was kind of a digression. But it’s curious.

Chris – Heresy, of course there is bacon in heaven – AND – Cap’n Crunch! No Mo oatmeal perhaps.

You guys are so deep without appearing or sounding theologically snobbish.

Much thanks to you both for your ministry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYqM9-Fj0Pg

Clearly he’s living with an over-realized eschatology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC1uqTEesIk

I’m so glad you don’t know who Beth Moore is, but you should probably know that she’s a very popular teacher with women’s groups. She’s cute, perky, and as sharp as a spoon. But when you have great hair, the distinction between law and gospel really are very, very secondary. This is where you guys are missing out: if you had better hair you wouldn’t have to discuss Walther, and could instead discuss how God delivered you from cellulite and split ends. I jest. Sort of.

I’m off this weekend to a Lutheran women’s retreat where I’m very excited about the crafts, and learning how I can feel more forgiven. Thankfully I have my ipod in my car, so I can scrub my brain on the drive home.

You found it before I did! Good job!

I’m assuming you found the, er, “product” via FAIL blog.

Lacking such, please, consider adding the below to the swag store, for our most beloved and most infantile Whisperer fans!

http://store.baconsalt.com/Bacon-Baby-Infant-Formula–WAITING-LIST-ONLY_p_84.html

Note the “WAITING LIST ONLY.” Order early and often, fans!!

Finally, don’t miss the many other links to bacon-flavored goodness on the right side. I’m especially considering the bacon-flavored lip balm!

GW is da bomb. Seriously. In a good way.

I appreciated the comments you shared from a fellow GW listener re: the dangers of a forced Law & Gospel homiletic. I can see how someone might use an L & G paradigm in an artificial way when preaching. However, shouldn’t the Gospel predominate in preaching? Why did Christ appoint preaching, anyway? The Word preached is a means of grace, which creates & strengthens faith (Rom 10:17), and by which the church is edified / sanctified (Acts 20:32 / Jn 17:17). The Law kills, the Gospel gives life (2 Cor 3-4). If that’s the case, then it makes sense that the Gospel / Word of life should be the “last word” to the church. Hermeneutically, if the passage is Law-heavy (imperatives, warnings, etc), shouldn’t the preacher after faithfully proclaiming the Law “in all its severity” bring us to Christ and His Gospel in all its sweetness? Preaching is not an exegetical lecture, but a proclamation of Christ and Him crucified for the forgiveness of sins. And we call pastors “ministers of the Gospel” for a reason. It seems to me that if a preacher ends with some moral exhortation, it leaves the smell of death hanging in the air. In the words of another Lutheran program, truly Christian preaching is “Christ-centered” and “Cross-focused.”

Anyway, my feeble thoughts.

Your humble patient,

Tony

“Every passage of sacred Scripture is either law or gospel, or is capable of being referred either to the one or to the other”

From:

http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/a-treatise-on-the-law-and-the-gospel/

versus:

http://www.dougwils.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7519:sweet-compliance&catid=46:auburn-avenue-stuff

I just wondered how this position differed from this:

“We believe that any passage, whether indicative or imperative, can be heard by the faithful as good news, and that any passage, whether containing gospel promises or not, will be heard by the rebellious as intolerable demand. The fundamental division is not in the text, but rather in the human heart.”

This is from the FV proponents in the Reformed world (they precede this with “We deny that law and gospel should be considered as hermeneutics, or treated as such.” which I presume you would reject)

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=COedwPCf5aK9dRCsAhj6ATII9mkKPyorPws

Blessings

Pardon my poor English. I blame it on Spring Break

About those snowboarders….we have THREE of them in our family. Yes, they are crazy, and they do have fun….except when they call from the ski hill and say, “Mom, I broke my leg.”

Another informative program, with some good laughs. Confessions, bacon and the two man luge…..it just doesn’t get any better.

http://blueribbonbaconfestival.com/

Keep the great shows coming

Jon

A central Iowa listener!

I think that dinner is the alternative title for lunch. At least with my parents, they always want to take us out to dinner when it’s lunch time. I think for my dad it comes from working swing shift for 40+ years. It’s kind of weird to say, “I’m goin’ to lunch,” when it’s 3 in the morning. For him, it is more appropriate to call the midday meal dinner, regardless of when the midday is…

By the way, “Jesus Is A Friend Of Mine” is awesome!!!!!

In regards to EO monastics- they seperate themselves from the world, in order to pray for it, as well as to discipline themselves. For a little bit more info, check this article out-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monk#Monasticism_in_Eastern_Christianity

I think I found the Mecca of bacon products (Mecca, bacon, get it? oh nevermind)

http://www.mcphee.com/shop/categories/Awesome-Stuff/Bacon-&-Meat

Personally I think the St. Anthony, Patron Saint of Bacon is the winner…

http://www.mcphee.com/shop/products/St.-Anthony-Patron-Saint-of-Bacon.html

Dinner is the noon meal, and is the biggest.

Supper is the evening meal and is smaller than Dinner.

Lunch is an optional snack you can have in the afternoon.

I would love to hear you discuss Walther’s Law & Gospel, followed by a series on Romans. And then Galatians (with highlights from Luther’s commentaries). I hope you guys keep this gig going for a long, long time!

May your bacon always be perfectly crisp,
Tony

Anyway, especially since the youngest nun is about 47, they are always trying to recruit from the female students to try and get some younger blood. My freshman advisor actually suggested that I look into it. When I told him I was a Lutheran, he said “Well, a lot of the sisters are refugees from Protestantism,”. I started talking about Sola Fide, at which point the conversation shut down.

I’m not sure what the point of sharing that was. Free association? Oh, well. Out of the options presented, I vote for CFWW’s Law and Gospel theses.

here in the midwest, with farmers up the family tree

Supper — always is the evening meal

Lunch — always noon

Dinner…. a bit more tricky, When I was growing up, dinner = supper, except on Sundays, Dinner was noon time. I’ve just gotten used to having to have the time specified whenever dinner is offered

I looked up my name on the Urban Dictionary. Craig, you only have marijuana as your stigma. My name is Janis. It’s synonymus with cocaine.

At 54 years old, I get tired of people asking me if I’m named after Janis Joplin. Trying to explain who Janis Paige is is useless. Thank heavens for gen-xers. They haven’t a clue either way. (Take that for what it’s worth.)

Thanks for your program. I’m a new Lutheran (was Bapticostal) and I love the fun you guys have. Too many years of self-righteous stiff shirts. I am so glad I don’t have to be dour anymore!

Please don’t excommunicate me, but I don’t eat bacon.

Since this episode is on Confession I need to confess and ask
for forgiveness… when you were reading the definition to
your name from the Urban Dictionary I thought you were
stretching the truth just a tad……….until I look it up for myself
and found that you were just reading what was there
Sorry for not believing you … I don’t appreciate all you and
Pastor C do with the GW and keep up the good work

Blessing
Karen ( aka doubting Thomasia !!!!! )

My favorite brand? The cheap Kroger stuff (found in your Kroger family of stores, go figure…around here, that’s King Soopers).

Ask him about good tea and pipe tobacco – he knows a lot about those things too.

Peace
Donofrio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGDBZmKHAOk

http://www.flatlandthefilm.com/

And I remember now that it wasn’t the Incarnation that you were discussing, but the Trinity.

http://www.flatlandthemovie.com/

Tribbles are so cute but so prolific. That describes our James! )))

Swedish style

Jonesy

It may be late, but I am now listening to the Christmas edition. The church in Cleveland that displayed the first Christmas tree is the church that my great grandparents, grandparents, and my parents belonged to; I was baptized there April of 1950. Zion Lutheran Church, Cleveland, Ohio.

Marlene

(Also, a little shout out to David A. Buck who is a friend of mine in Christ Jesus and lives close by!)

<

Blessings to you both and continue your ministry as you are effective tools for the Lord.

PDH

Pastor Cwirla, on a couple of episodes you’ve mentioned a common misunderstanding of the “means of grace” – i.e, grace is not a transferable / infused “substance” a la Roman Catholicism. If I heard you correctly, I think you said that the means of grace – Word & Sacrament – are how God shows us His favor in Christ by way of the Gospel. I think I’m tracking with that. One question – how do the means of grace relate to sanctification / Christian growth? My Reformed (or deformed?) understanding has been that God conveys “sanctifying grace” through these means, i.e., He causes us to grow in faith / strengthens the new man. But then that sounds like the “grace as a substance” idea you critiqued.

Thanks for your help, and keep up the faithful frivolity!

Tony

The blue of Advent comes from the Scandanavian churches (Church of Sweden), where the color was more of an indigo blue. The current “smurf” blue in most churches is an invention of the church supply companies. The dark blue signifies hope and expectation: the color of the late evening sky before the dawn.

Anyway, cannot wait to get my GW ornaments on the tree. Guess I have to buy them first?

Man were there some happy faces after that meal.

Thought if anyone could appreciate the dedication it would be you guys.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/24/earlyshow/living/recipes/main5759213_page2.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

the second is one that I will definitely be trying, bon apetit!!

http://www.globalgourmet.com/food/pasta/2000/1100/turkey.html

I think.

thank you for that recipe. It sounds delicious! Can’t wait to try it!

One of my favorite episodes.

You may be asking, “what will the God Whisperers have for dessert on Thanksgiving?” The answer is simple – Candied Bacon Ice Cream. Want the recipe?

http://www.recipezaar.com/Candied-Bacon-Ice-Cream-326590

Peace
Donofrio

Enjoy the show! Like the website. Love bacon. Mmmmm bacon.

The band behind “Jesus Is A Friend of Mine” – Sonseed – suffered a true God Whisperers-style tragedy when their drummer died in a freak sandwich-choking accident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonseed

So please, when eating lunch prior to a recording session – swallow carefully.

(The lead singer of Sonseed is also apparently available for 3rd microphone appearances.)

Keep up the good shows.

“TalkShoe is a Web 2.0 Internet radio/podcasting site that uses a Java chat client in conjunction with a conference call bridge to allow users to host or participate in live on-line talk radio shows called “community calls” or simply a “call” for short. A call can be syndicated and downloaded after the live show ends as a podcast.”

or if you want the video feed going you could use http://www.ustream.tv/ like the show from CARM.org uses, but people could only text chat.

PS-Sweet new website…
PPS-And it works so well! ^ ^

“Jesus don’t want me for a sunbeam,
Cause sunbeams are not made like me….”

Check out the God-pleasing footwork at 2:00

Still feel like I need to delete the Manly Drs 13 # from the called list on my cell as it just sounds….wrong instead of being access to the bacon wrapped catechetical goodness.

Everything is better off with bacon.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/devich/4072687132/

Dave Diers (listener #7 of 7)
Chanhassen, Minnesota

fond memories….

Perhaps I should claim my victim status as a lonely Italian in a predominately German church.

Poor, poor Donofrio – is there no justice in the world? Gak!

The ELCA has become anti-nomian in regard to God’s Law (sexuality) and downright legalistic regarding civic righteousness (peace and justice issues). Political liberalism now seems to be the new orthodoxy.

Nearly everything out of Chicago these days regarding politics looks like it came hot off the press of the DNC.

FWIW, one of the best refutations of the Religious Right came from the LCMS web site (many years ago now). I had to smack down the Religious Right before and now I have to smack down the Religious Left.

Keep up the good work.

Keep up the great work!

I’ll stop listening if you get rid of it.

Free Willy!
http://tinyurl.com/ACXVIII

This post was mentioned on Twitter by Godwhisperers: The return of Jesus Christ to judgment and why no one gets left behind on the Last Day. Check it out. http://alturl.com/kzx7...

A future show, perhaps?

THEONOMY!!! I can’t ever remember that for some reason! I have drawn a blank on Theonomy more times than I care to remember.

Anyone else notice that at the beginning of this Episode, Cwirla was saying that I would be doing the talking and then for the next 50 minutes, I could barely get a word in edgewise? Oh well, can’t change a tiger’s stripes.

BTW, I about fell over when Larry Norman came on for the break music! What a choice!

The Lord’s Supper is for Christians and we recognize Christians by their baptism.

Peace
Donofrio

Jeremiah,
Yeah – somehow a file got launched into the ether-world and vanished. I was much too lazy to go and set up all the gear to make it sound good, so you got the USB headset mic and me – low quality on all sides.

Thanks Guys and keep up the good work – there’s so many people out there, like myself, who need to hear this stuff.

Stephen

Grace and peace!

Jim A.

Blessings
MM

wmc

Cool image though.

I really enjoy your show and look forward to each new segment. Your lighthearted introductions followed up by serious conversation regarding the Lutheran Faith is just what the doctor ordered for this 20 year Calvinist and Reformed Presbyterian transitioning to Confessional Lutheranism. Which brings up a great show idea. Why does Calvinism matter? What implications in Doctrine, Worship, and Life does a Calvinistic/Reformed worldview have that make it a concern that should be addressed by Confessional Lutheranism? What are the differences and why do they matter? Does it prohibit church fellowship or involvement in common causes once we sort out all that we have in common as well as where we differ?

and you can’t go wrong with wordpress.